Article I Section 2:
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.
In other words the National government is authorized to collect taxes from the states based on their populations, but is not authorized to tax the people directly.
On May 21, 1895, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a direct tax on personal income was unconstitutional as a result of the case of Pollock v. Farmers‘ Loan and Trust Company. The lawsuit had been precipitated by the 1894 Income Tax Act. The Supreme Court’s 5-4 decision stated that a “direct tax” on the “income of real and of personal property” was “unconstitutional and void.”
All I said at first was the 16th amendment was not Legally ratified. I never said anything about the FRA in this discussion. And from what I have read, a great many of Congress, Senate, and even Woodrow Wilson signed the FRA into Law. If I'm wrong, message me with the Facts, and I will sit down and shut up
I have Bill Benson's book but I'm not sure what difference it makes whether the Code, the 16th so-called amendment or any of that was lawfully passed. It doesn't have to and it doesn't have to be constitutional. Its private law for their subjects.
If you had a business [ABC Company] with employees and had a rule that each employee would have $20 a month taken from their pay to maintain the restrooms, how far would an argument go that the rule is unconstitutional? The rule applies to their employees. Its private.
Now if you come along and say, hey, that's a good idea because it helps to keep the rest rooms clean and sanitary. I'll help out with that-- and you sign [under penalty of perjury] that you are to be regarded as an employee of ABC Company. Wouldn't you look rather foolish to jump up and start yelling that taking $20 out of your check when you aren't employed by ABC Co. is unconstitutional?
I've heard many arguments regarding the BC, the application for a SS Number, etc. and how those events pulled you into taxpayer status, however I don't believe that any of those things created a liability.
What created a liability was not the application for a tax ID number, or an SS number. The liability arose when you used that number on a tax form and signed under penalty of perjury that you wanted to be an employee of ABC Co. [U.S. citizen, resident alien, individual, taxpayer].
What is the purpose of the SS# and who does it belong to? It belongs to the SS Administration and it is used by Govco to keep track of all the commercial activity of their SM. Any time the SM starts to do any kind of commercial activity such as apply for electricity, a bank account, a job, etc. don't they always want you to give them the SS#? That's clear evidence that the SM is an important tool in your kit. Its your transmitting utility. Its how you interact with their commercial system. Without it you have an extremely difficult time obtaining the essentials unless you are hardy enough to live off the grid, grow your own food, make your own clothes, etc.
The big problem most face is that Govco uses the SM to control us. They operate under the presumption that we will never figure out their game and that, since we have never rebutted the presumption, we are the surety for their SM. We show up in court to pay the fine and do the time for their SM named in all caps on the court docket.
That may be so. It was written so as to include only the BC district. However, it seems to have been pushed upon all the working class Americans.
I wonder if Trump will Honor his Promise to clean house and drain the swamp?
There are a lot of things, agencies, and class of people who should not be doing business against the Citizens of America according to the Constitution, but without a full blown Revolution, are likely to keep doing business as usual.
There was a man named Erwin Shiff I believe that used to preach against the IRS. I believe they finally threw him in jail over the Income Tax
I gathered that when he went to jail.
I went to one of his seminars years ago, and the FBI followed me around Orlando for almost a year.
I feel all of us are nearly on the same page and agree, for several reasons, that income taxes are unconstitutional. We know this, but the Devil is in the details! My questions are...
1.) How do we correctly STOP paying taxes, without being kidnapped and involuntarily placed in 6x8 government housing?
a. Do we just stop filing forms and stop paying?
b. Do we need to rescind whatever government paperwork that testifies that we are an EMPLOYEE of THEIR government corporation? ( I was too young and not of age to sign for my Birth Certificate or my Social Security Number. How can I sign a "legal agreement" while being a minor? Are we responsible for the deeds of others?)
2.) How do we conduct ourselves in our day to day interactions with others that still ARE employed by the corporation?
a. When applying for a job, how do we INSIST to the "Human Resources" department that we demand to be paid directly and 100% of our compensation for our time, and NOT sign any IRS forms?
b. When we are self-employed, better known as self sufficient, how should we arrange our affairs, so as not to be confused as belonging to THEIR CORPORTION? And how might we pay others for their goods or services?
c. Should we have bank accounts, credit cards, licenses, passports, registrations, recording of deeds, or titles of any kind?
d. How do we prove what we purchased or earned is 100% ours and NOT owned by the system? They seem to have a method of confiscating "stuff" through their company courts. They do it all by paperwork and collusion with the banks.
3.) How do we keep what's ours and simultaneously stay out of both the corporate courts and THEIR debtor's prison? How do we protect our "belongings and assets", if you will, from the long arm of the courts?
4.) I believe state sales taxes are lawful. How do we collect and forward Constitutional sales taxes to our state revenue office WITHOUT creating our own private corporation that is in any way connected to the federal corporation and courts? They expect to offer an EIN, Employee Identification Number. I feel there is a Catch-22 dealing with this question.
I am trying to methodically remove myself from THE company. I tried not to have a drivers license. It didn't work out so well! It became impossible to NOT have one.
I eventually gave in, and did luckily discovered ONE covert question on the DL renewal. It inquired, "Are you a US citizen"? (I believe the same is asked on the IRS1040 and passport applications. It is definately asked by penalty of perjury when a lawyer submits OUR affidavit of truth to the courts.) I checked the NO, I am not a US citizen box. The license renewal didn't inquire what OTHER type of citizen I might be.
I "signed", or more accurately scribbled, the DL renewal "Without Prejudice". Nothing else, no autograph or THEIR strawman signature. That is MY "mark" now! Did I do the right thing? If they want to kidnap someone, they can get a warrant for the Without Prejudice signee. I feel that the DMV employee just messed this one while distracted. Do I need to reply or appear if any court insists that I am accused of some "driving" infraction while "travelling"?
I previously attempted the UCC 1-308 along WITH my name, and the DMV employee would not allow ANYTHING except my strawman name. The young DMV employee called his superior to deal with me who came equipped with documentation explaining "exactly" why I can't place anything WITH my signature especially documenting 1-308. Interesting that he had pre-printed legal literature on this little fact.
Back on-topic. How do we totally remove ourselves from THE company? The correct way. I don't like working there anyway and I have also stopped accepting any of THEIR "benefits" packages. Think about that one! Only "employees" are able to qualify for company "benefits"! No entitlements for me. I don't wish to participate, so I don't expect to be rewarded. I am not a company man!
Reply to Mike.
There is a way to do exactly what you're asking about.My wife and I are doing it and it may be something you should look into. I'll give you a little background. A few years ago a small group of patriots discovered that the articles of Confederation had not been superseded by the Constitution. The articles had simply been abandoned. They brought them up to date including a revised declaration of independence from 325 A.D. The name of the country defined in the articles is styled The United States of America.We've been scammed for over 200 years with the Dutch corporate Constitution and the fake country called the US laid over the top of the real country. It's now possible to take an oath to the original country and actually have the freedom we were promised over 200 years ago. Allodial land titles, actual titles for our vehicles, proper passports and all other kinds of services are available to individuals in the underlying original country defined by the articles of Confederation which has been brought up to date to include all 50 states.Information about The United States of America can be found in an online newspaper called "the reign of the heavens society post". It'll take a little bit of digging but follow links for a few days and you can figure out all about our real country as it is today.
Thank Herb, I'll check that out.
I enjoy being here Morton. Let us know when you are up and running.
I've looked at so much Right to Travel information, here and all over the internet. Most of it helpful and sounds great to us once we are slightly educated with facts. Some opinions of others have conflicting advice. I'm OK with differing opinions.
My concern is dealing with the hassle of being handcuffed and kidnapped because our police just don't understand. We can't disagree with a person with a badge and a gun along with the guy wearing a black dress protected by more armed goons. Police follow orders, and if we don't do as THEY wish, we must be resisting and must be criminals and terrorists. Most of these police are honest Americans, just ignorant of the truth and can't believe that anyone else can have a point which counters lawyers, judges, and their little code book. It's common for police to inherit that authoritarian attitude. It comes from their training. Not education, training. I have NO defense or compassion for lawyers and judges. They DO know better and are criminal and guilty of collusion and extortion.
It's not just this one issue. The entire concept of what OUR country was built on has been turned inside out. Fixing any of it is an uphill battle. The deck is stacked against facts and education. The lie must be correct and no one, with the ability to fix it, wants to learn anything different. We've created a hungry monster and everyone is afraid of it, especially the ones protecting it.
Back on topic about this tax subject. I don't have much objection to taxes in general. The problem is, that most tax is NOT used as intended. Its always easy to "demand" more. Taxes gets wasted and abused. Then we have OUR so-called representatives taxing us for absolutely everything under the sun and the cycle has no end in sight. At what point will everyone agree that the system is corrupt and a joke. Taxes fine! Ongoing theft at gunpoint, No! The apportioned and unapportioned tax is plain as day. So why do we have a problem?
If we ever come to our senses and attempt a better system, here's my advice. The federal government or treasury should NOT ever receive a dime directly from the People. Naturally there are certain services WE need to pay for. We must pay our military expenses and a FEW limited things required by the Constitution. That's it! Our individual portion of tax should go directly to our own state. Then our states forward ONLY the amount that is due to the federal government. States can refuse to pay for unconstitutional expenses only if and when we CONTROL the purse strings. Once the money goes to the federal government, we can't ever expect to have it returned! It's too late. The federal government can't spend money they don't have. Don't give the bastards one cent to waste.
Make a budget, starting from how much is in the federal account. When the last penny is spent, Congress is done spending. We don't care that there's more to do. Stick to the budget, just like every American has to do. Congress can't write checks for money They don't have. Take any overdraft out of the Congress' paycheck, ONCE! It will never happen again! Repossess one Senators home. It will stop right quick! No debates, No Supreme Court lawsuits or Congressional hearings for a dozen years.
Treat the federal government like a child's allowance. The parents set rules on how much and how responsible the child is behaving with their finances. Maybe the parents will cut back the allowance.
The federal government shouldn't pay ANY of our Congress' or staff's salaries. Representatives are voted for by the state Citizens. Each state sets and pays their state employees salaries from state taxes. No set salaries. Each state chooses their representative's value.
If we want to see government get smaller, make the states pay for ALL those extra and redundant departments and agencies that are NOT authorized by OUR collective Constitution. Government will get reduced real fast! No arguments or excuses. This isn't rocket science.
We shouldn't need to have a discussion with OUR government about these things. It's all written in the owners manual. Follow it or get fired!
Do we need to discuss the unconstitutional interest to the unlawful federal reserve? Didn't think so! Taxes would plummet 99% on that fix alone. What National Debt? The debt is gone when we erase the unconstitutional interest that has been stolen for over 100 years.
Here's the big picture. If we tax responsibly, everyone keeps MOST of what they earn. No entitlements because there's no free money stolen from someone else. However, EVERYONE, poor and wealthy, has more money in their pocket. It will get spent, saved, invested, or frittered away by the one that earned it. Every penny boosts the economy no matter what happens to it. The cycle continues. Wealthy people buy expensive things. Other people make things. Money saved in real banks gets invested to help someone else. Everyone wins.
As soon as money is stolen by government, we all pay for the loss. Government cannot spend its way out of debt. Government cannot INVEST in anything. Investing is for those that HAVE money! Government cannot create jobs, except paperwork. Citizens create jobs. Yes, even the poor create jobs. They have needs, and there will be an entrepreneur to address them. The government doesn't need to create social programs. Communities and churches will do that without having to ask, because all humans have compassion and will take care of each other in unlimited ways. It's human nature. We don't have to be told.
Whoa, I better stop here. Somebody else help me out and let's fix all of this.
I agree Morton. We need to close the non-government private Federal Reserve and return to "coining money" as defined by our Constitution. The Congress needs to direct the Treasury what to print, without interest. No FIAT currency. No debt money.
All our future banks should be collecting real money from depositors, and loaning it out to others. Naturally, banks should charge interest, and share it with the depositors. No leveraging of the money supply. They can loan only what they have in the vault. If banks are irresponsible with their loans, they will go bankrupt. Just as nature and common sense intended. We don't reward the stupid and irresponsible businesses. No bailouts. No too big to fail. Failure is a natural occurrence sometimes. It happens. But we don't reward it.
When the money supply is confined in this manner, what do we imagine will happen to inflation? Prices will stabilize and eventually go down. That is until Congress and the Treasury prints more. That's what we need to keep under control. Maybe we need to have a balance between population size and how much money is in circulation.
The creative entrepreneurs and hard workers will always accumulate more and the lazy will always have less. We will never change that. We can however change the "incentive" to be successful. You get to keep what you earn.
Once again, Citizens should keep everything they earn. The government should be forwarded the absolute MINIMUM tax to perform what we direct them to do. Not one penny more. We are a Republic. We make the rules.
Allow me to go on a slight tangent. If we took back every penny the federal government spends that is NOT allowed by the Constitution. How much money would Americans have in their pocket today? Take our federal budget waste and abuse and divide it by the number of taxpayers, not the population which includes children and non-working retired. What could Americans do with that windfall?
We can also scale that down to the states also. What state taxes are 100% unnecessary?
That's a lot of money back into circulation. If some millionaires wish to buy yachts and jets, they're going to spend that money back into circulation. It helps create jobs. Much better than tax money being wasted for government to pretend to create jobs.
Money is a tool. It does no good to hoard money, except a reasonable amount for financial security. The wealthy only get wealthier if they use their accumulated profits to make more. It pays to spend it. Not like government has been doing though. The circulation of money is what make the world go round.
Yes, taxes are necessary. But at what point is taxation theft? When we have the power to tax, we need to have an audit on ourselves. What is being taxed and how much? When do we say STOP? It's in our rulebook. If it's not within the Constitution, we can't tax it. How much is our apportioned tax supposed to be?
The problem is, the ones we elect are not addressing proper taxation. They are making it worse with every passing day. They are either doing nothing, or adding to the tax. We need to control the ones we elect. We can't fix taxes, it's out of our domain. Only the ones we elect have OUR authority to fix it. We need to fix THEM!