The Bundy Affair - Oath Keepers vs. Militia
Gary Hunt
Outpost of Freedom
April 24, 2014
Oath Keepers is a national organization founded by Elmer Stewart Rhodes in 2009. By 2011, they had a reported membership of 12,000, though no current membership figures are readily available. Their stated Purpose:
Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, police, and first responders who pledge to fulfill the oath all military and police take to “defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” That oath, mandated by Article VI of the Constitution itself, is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and Oath Keepers declare that they will not obey unconstitutional orders, such as orders to disarm the American people, to conduct warrant-less searches, or to detain Americans as “enemy combatants” in violation of their ancient right to jury trial. See the Oath Keepers Declaration of Orders "We Will Not Obey" for details.
Interestingly, they say that they will not "conduct warrantless searches", though those in law enforcement do so every day. But then, that is not the point of discussing Oath Keepers, so on with the story.
They declare that "THEY will not obey unconstitutional orders". Otherwise, they did not explicitly state, since they refer to their "oaths", that they will "defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic", though that is not their primary purpose, only incidental. Nowhere do they make that their purpose; Only not to obey unconstitutional orders. This needs to be emphasized as this is where the rubber meets the road.
Though we have no current numbers, the membership structure consists of both Full and Associate memberships, with Full being $40/yr. and Associate being $7.00/yr. Associates are supporters that don't meet the criteria defined in the "Purpose".
We must ask ourselves why Oathkeepers are even on the scene. They have taken an oath not to violate their oath of office. That is well and good, but let's look at how that fits into the current situation. Oath Keepers (not associate Oath Keepers) are current, ex, or retired law enforcement, etc., and military. So, we'll look, first, at Law Enforcement.
Active Law Enforcement are currently paid by the enemy (government), just as the Redcoats were 230 years ago. If they were on our side and acted in conjunction with Constitutional Militia, they would, in essence, be fighting themselves or their brother LEOs). They may still be on the side of their brothers. However, if you look at almost any state, Law Enforcement Officers are specifically excluded from the militia -- check your own state statute under the militia section.
So, on to ex-LEOs. This would presume that they did not get the time in for retirement, leaving the question as to, "Why?" Sort of reminds us of the guy charged with a crime and then the charges are, mysteriously, dropped; or, the guy that has an assignment that requires that he shed his Law Enforcement identity.
Finally, we come to the Retired LEO. He is receiving a very substantial paycheck. Many larger cities have salaries for these full-term officers in excess of 100 thousand dollars per year. That would prove to be a tidy sum, which, surely, the retiree would not be willing to relinquish because he participated in an event that was an action against his brothers in Law Enforcement. We must judge based upon what we can use as a benchmark to measure the probability of actual concurrence with the efforts of the militia.
With regard to LEOs, since 1967, law enforcement training has focused on a "them or us" mentality. That means that though they are sworn to enforce the law, that policy is inapplicable if the offender is a brother law enforcer, except, perhaps, in extremely egregious circumstances, likely comprising a very small fraction of a percentage of all LEO offenses. Will he ever be willing to disassociate himself from an aura of superiority that has become a mainstay of his life?
On the other hand, their disdain for the public safety, as demonstrated so often by "policy" of "Officer Safety" results in hundreds of killings per year of innocent, unarmed citizens. If an officer is involved in such incident, he gets administrative leave, with pay, pending investigation -- yes, paid vacation, not taken from his contractual vacation time -- for killing someone. If by some chance the victim's family prevails in a lawsuit, then the taxpayers pay the damages and costs. What a deal! But, I digress, though that digression is also important to the story.
In addition, perhaps we should consider the proliferation of Fusion Centers, where various federal agencies interface with local law enforcement officers. Can we reasonably expect that there is not a degree of encouragement for the locals to infiltrate, or at least, ingratiate, the various patriot groups to obtain intelligence on their operations? If so, the simple next step is to attempt to gain influence to be able to direct, or at least influence, those groups' activities, in support of their federal comrades.
Now, let's look at the Military side of Oath Keepers. Active military can be of no assistance, as they would not go AWOL, or risk their leave, to do something that might get them an early discharge, at less than honorable. We'll jump to Retired, and we will recognize the same problematic relationship with the pension of one who takes on the federal government, as well as his obedience to the government controlled environment for at least twenty years of his life. Though perhaps extreme, remember, Timothy McVeigh, recipient of a number of medals and an honorable discharge, was denied the burial rights that were guaranteed as a condition of enlistment. Surely, they can yank pensions on almost any grounds that they reasonably justify.
This leaves us with those who chose not to career, and since 1973 there has been no conscription (draft), so we needn't address those who didn't volunteer and deal only with those who volunteered to serve their country, did their duty, served their time, and got out to reenter civilian life. They have nothing to lose by participation in the militia, and they are not excluded by statute. Therefore, they are the only possible contingent of the Oath Keeper element that can relatively and safely be presumed to be pure in their motivation.
With that one exception, they all have a conditioning in their lives that would suggest that they would tend to be inclined to a sort of special duty -- infiltration of the militia -- than they would to have the pure motives of participation in the militia.
The Oath Keepers, by their oaths, only intend to "not violate their oath of office". There is not provision in their corporate bylaws which provides for them stopping another person from violating his oath. The militia, on the other hand, having both helped in wresting control from England, and current situations, have been a mainstay, and by tradition as well as intent, are bound to support and defend the Constitution and their State's constitution.
That being said, if Oath Keepers choose to participate in the events at Bunkerville, they should do so not as an Oath Keepers, but only as a members of a militia, which the Constitution of the United States and the constitutions of each and every state, recognize as a lawful and protected right -- a right of united self-defense. They should be relegated to duties without access to privileged information or command; And, as such, are subordinate to the command within the militia structure, not to the patriarch of the Oath Keepers. Oath Keepers may, by choice, be militia. However, militia members, who have taken the same oath, absent the requisite requirement to join and pay the dues, may not be Oath Keepers. So, which of the two MUST be the subordinate?
Gary Hunt
Replies
Several well-made points. This has given me food for thought and meditation. Thanks.
Oath Keppers were hunting for Charles Dyer / July 4 Patriot right along with Rick MinuteMan Light and the feds, when he was on the run.
http://4umf.com/bundy-militia-fears-fed-infiltration/
^^ Guess who is involved down there? Yep, Rick Light!
http://4umf.com/rick-light-militia-informant/
http://4umf.com/militia-informants-exposed/
http://4umf.com/rebuttal-rick-light-texas-state-militia-commander/
Notice how Clayton Bigsby, uh, er, um, Clay Douglas is conspiciously absent / silent?
He left so fast after being confronted, that he made the "PEOUN" sound? Do you have any idea how fast he had to be moving to make the "PEOUN" sound? Pretty fast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuMTkGAmack
I have always thought of Oath Keepers as a sophomoric, entry level, organization that may lead some into the knowledge of some truth. It is obvious that "not violating their oath" would require that they actually understand their oath and most of them likely don't and never will. They just want a band aid for all the guilt and shame they feel for all the violations they have already committed and know they will continue to commit.
If law "enforcers" had any integrity they would be busting their brother law "enforcers" so often we would all hear about it multiple times a day. It so rarely happens in the entire country that it is fair to say that ALL cops are criminals.
*Commit "AND" SUPPORT!
true, Dean
Hi Gary, Rosanna here and its been a while since we've spoke. I am still fighting for justice for Mom and freedom for Dad even though I know the evil wrongdoers will pay on judgment before the ALMIGHTY JUDGE. https://constitutionclub.ning.com/forum/topics/elder-abuse-theft-of-... Everybody has such great answers and fixes but they don't work the way we think they should.
Ok so now we have the definition between Oath keepers and Militia. Can we get some Militia in Ohio to go with me to rescue my Dad? http://eldermurderabuseandexploitation.blogspot.com/2014/02/1-elder...
Be gentle I am finishing out the remaining options left before me just incase I can find some blood out there while converting into my court. You will find two Habeas Corpus I have written in the link along with other pleadings and documentation. The evil wrongdoers ignore not only their statutes and THE Constitutions they are suppose to rule by but their own case OPINIONS. If their evil acts were not committed the outcome would not have resulted in abuse, murder, theft and denial of God endowed rights. This is a no win situation to stay on this road.
I am retired Navy. I am an Oath Keeper. I went to the Bundy Ranch. I will not stand by and allow another Waco situation. Period
Great, come on to my house eh?
John,
Please read the response I wrote to Andy. I have tried to contact the Oath keepers and Militia throughout this period but nobody has ever gotten back with me.
As God as my witness these people wronged my parents deliberately.... They knew what they were doing and I think the police and professional reports, transcripts, etc prove that without struggling to understand it. The record in court I have made speaks for itself. And that is what they hate.
I need some forces behind me or they will take me to jail.
Good concept, but if you doubt some would join on orders / assignment, you are limited in thinking, because there is a possibility that they could, and a possibility that it was set up to track those who wouldn't.
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