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Bill, I'm distressed that you continue to argue using terms that you apparently don't comprehend. The term 'person' may be a citizen of a State or the Federal Government but a 'person' can never be a sovereign. A 'citizen' under The Constitution of The United States of America is not a living being and is always a legal fiction.
Now if you want to classify the term 'person' or 'persons' as having the same meaning as 'people' then I think this conversation is, in itself, meaningless.
I think that there has been so much information available in regards to Govco's want of authority over people that I don't need to proceed further on that note. Govco being a fiction of law [corporation] can only see and have authority over other fictions. That's why they are always trying to get the living being to contract with them wearing the hat of the fiduciary for their legal fiction straw man.
If you want to deny the basis for their control over the people as being some sort of myth, you are free to do that, but in doing so you are taking the dominant structure out of the puzzle.
I can't imagine why anyone who is versed in our current dilemma would ever claim to be any type of citizen/Citizen at all. If you say you are one then it implies that you have joined the club, agree to be fiduciary for THEIR straw man with all the implications of subservience to millions of statutes, codes, regs. ordinances, etc. referred to as 'laws' which are nothing but 'public policy' under bankruptcy.
I think the one thing you are on point with is your statement regarding the nature of the prevailing regime being communist. What else can it be called when everything you have worked for has been registered in the name of the SM [belongs to them] and has been pledged as collateral for the national debt. The State has legal title to everything that has been registered including the birth of their SM [birth certificate]. I think that fills the criteria for communism.
Why can't a sovereign be a citizen? Why can't a citizen of the fed gov via the 14th be a person? The 14th was created for people after all.
People are persons, but not all persons are people.
Only by having citizenship does an individual even have a right to be in America, unless they are a legal alien, which is a temp status.
Reply by Bill May
No offense, but you missed this one. If you look a little closer to what you wrote you'll see it. I.E.
"...it has become excepted law..." AND "It has been excepted for so long that it is now beyond challenge."
See it now? Twice you used the word "excepted" when I'm pretty sure you meant ACCEPTED. See it now?
You are correct.
I feel like I'm in a revolving door here.
[Why can't a sovereign be a citizen?[ The sovereign is only subject to 2 basic principles of law: (1), Do all that you set your hand to [contractual fulfillment] and, (2). your rights end where my nose begins [do no injury unto your brother]. On the other hand, a citizen is one who has joined the establishment as a subject and has the obligation of following the millions of rules, regs., statutes, codes, being enforced under public policy under bankruptcy. Want that, then tell them you're a citizen.
[Why can't a citizen of the fed gov via the 14th be a person?] A citizen is always a 'person' and is never one of the people. They only have authority over legal fiction persons and people who think they are citizens. They have zero authority over people. The game is to make you THINK you are the person on the bill, charging instrument, deed, ticket, etc.
[The 14th was created for people after all.] The 14th was not created for the people. It was created to subvert the people by getting them to fail to recognize the fallacy of the 'free the slaves' rhetoric. Instead of freeing the slaves, they enslaved the free through the use of legal fictions impersonating living beings. I really don't think that concept is terribly difficult to digest.
[People are persons, but not all persons are people.] People are not persons unless they act in the capacity of a fiction by, for example, 'appearing in court'. People are present while fictions 'appear'. Appear: coming out of nowhere. Example: John Wayne appearing as Rooster Cogburn.
[Only by having citizenship does an individual even have a right to be in America, unless they are a legal alien, which is a temp status."] Citizenship only grants one the duty to fall under the control of the foreign de-facto regime posing as government with millions of little bullshit hoops to jump through. You want that then just tell them you are a U.S. citizen/Citizen. I have a right to be here because I was born here for want of a better term. Others came here from foreign countries and joined the corporation because it was a hell of a lot better than the shit hole corporation's control they left behind---but its still a de-facto corporation and no matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, its still a stinking pig.
I don't think I can add anything more of value to this discussion. I give up. I'm done.
You have an amazing imagination. It would be nice if you would actually study the topics you comment on.
The 14th not being created for any people is an example. The framers of the 14th and the courts have spoken clearly on this matter. It was created for a class of people whom could not, although free, otherwise attain citizenship.