All I can say is; if 45 minutes of listening to Walter E. Williams ("Black by popular demand and a handsome devil if you ask him"), talk about the proper role of government doesn't convince you that we are far, far away from it, then nothing will.
This guy should be President, not the likes of the Communist Barry Soetoro. It is clear by All accounts that he is ineligible to be President. He is not a Natural Born Citizen of the united states of America. It is time for us to remove him from OUR office and to return to the proper rule of law, where the role of government is clear, limited and defined once again.
Keith posted on the Constitution Club and article The Proper Role of Government, featuring four short videos. Defense by Silvia Mind Control, Milton Friedman, Earl Taylor, and Walter E Williams. As far as I could understand they didn't agree on much of anything, with the exception that they all seemed to agree somewhat that people have the right to life, liberty and property.
I don’t know about Silvia Mind Control but all the rest of them seem to be people who lived in the United States of America; Americans. Only one of them cited the United States Constitution and none of them addressed the preamble to our Constitution.
Which states “We The Peopleof the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and provide the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution United States of America”.
I don’t see any place in the United States Constitution that states people have the right to life liberty and property. In the Declaration of Independence it clearly states that we hold these truths to be self-evident, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
I heard them talk about free trade, the right to trade and that no one could give to anyone power or authority that they did not have themselves. I heard Williams say that he could trade dollars for milk and both sides would be happy and others talked about buying things. However, I never heard any of them talk about what was to be used for money, where it would come from, how it was to work, or what difference that would make in ensuring domestic tranquility or general welfare. How would that have anything to do with providing the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our children? It seems quite clear to me that no one could have the right to life liberty or property if he has to borrow and pay interest on every cent he uses to engage in any form of commerce. Yet clearly not a single one of them thought that this mattered.
Not a single one of them addressed the fact that Congress was to coin the money, obviously for the benefit of the people, so they can engage in commerce without being enslaved to their lender for their medium exchange.
I think before we start declaring what the role of the world United States government is we should get a good understanding of what the founding fathers meant when they stated;
“We The People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and provide the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution United States of America”.
What did they mean when they said to form a more perfect Union?
What did they mean when they said establish justice? My dictionary says justice is a quality of being righteous the use of authority and power to hold that which is right. To learn which is right or wrong I think that a good place to go was to the Bible and look at the 10 Commandments which states:
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother.
6. Thou shalt comment murder.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
10. Thou shall not covet.
11. Thou shall love thy neighbor. You shouldn’t do anything to your neighbor you wouldn’t want him to do to you.
What did they mean when they said insure domestic Tranquility?
What did they mean when they said provide for the common defense?
What did they mean when they said promote the general welfare ?
What did they mean when they said provide the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity?
That's a lot of words. I read all of them. I'm not sure about some of those sentences. Not sure I understand everything you're saying either, but I am sure that I have addressed this issue myself in an article I posted on my page. Perhaps you've seen it. In case you haven't, here it is again.
I Want
I want my federal government to:
Set up their own system of existence and operation, but never be allowed to set their own salary. This should be done by a vote of the people.
Protect the nation’s borders.
Declare war, Grant letters of Marque and Reprisal and make (and follow), rules concerning capture on the Land and Water. To regulate war forces. To train and call up the Militia.
Set the parameters of weights and measures and control the value of money.
Build and Maintain Forts, Magazines, Border Fences, Roads, Armies, Navies and other such national forces like the National guard for policing Pirates and infrastructure to include responsibility for such things as distribution of the power grid, water, and steps taken designed to prevent flooding, hurricanes, droughts, tornadoes, earthquakes and other natural disasters, etc.
Immigration control.
Sign Treaties.
Issue Patents.
To ALWAYS fly the proper Flag! Not the one with golden adornments or drapery, but upon water only! On land, the Flag shall NEVER display but as originally displayed and hung and adhering to original rules. Meaning when displayed in our court rooms, etc., it shall have no adornment whatsoever. In addition the flag shall always and forever forth be revered as a representation of “jurisdiction” and the law being applied under it. This important distinction shall never be allowed to be over-looked as trivial or without Merit.
It is very clear that you did not understand anything I wrote. I didn't ask nor was I interested in what, you want the government to do. I only wanted to know what other people thought the founding father meant when they wrote the preamble to the Constitution.
What did they mean when they said, “to form a more perfect Union?”
What did they mean when they said, “to establish justice?”
What did they mean when they said, “to form a more perfect Union?”
What did they mean when they said, “to insure domestic Tranquility?”
What did they mean when they said, to provide for the common defense?”
What did they mean when they said, “promote the general welfare?”
What did they mean when they said, “to provide the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity?”
All good questions I could probably answer, but why don't you just read the news articles of the day. Its called the Federalist Papers. This, along with the DOI and The Constitution should be adequate to fully answer all of those questions and more I'm sure.
For instance, when they said a more perfect, I'm sure they meant that they needed to improve drastically on the Articles of Confederation as these articles were inadequate to a burgeoning nation ready for freedom and a consistent rule of law for all occasions now and in the future. So they created the Constitution in the first place to do that very thing, To form a more perfected document that could accommodate their newly formed sovereign nation. OK Byron?
Morton, Have you ever read the Anti-Federalist Papers? Have you ever read Lysander Spooner's work titled "No More Treason"? The Federalist Papers main author was none other than the traitor Alexander Hamiliton while the Anti-Federalists included Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, George Mason, Richard Henry Lee and a host of other signers of the Declaration of Independence.
The Constitution was not written to create a new union, it was was to perfect the one that already existed with the 13 independent sovereign nations that formed a confederacy. The Constitution did not create a central government which had supremacy over the states, it created a government where the states shared a larger portion of their authority with the central government.
I have not read the Anti-Federalist Papers, but I have read "No More Treason" and other Spooner works. However The Federalist Papers were the work of Hamilton, Madison and Jay. Were they all Federalists? Probably, but that doesn't make them wrong, nor does it make me wrong for referencing them. I was simply addressing the question from Byron of what did they mean when they said "to form a more perfect union". That's all. The answer can be found in many places authored by many of our founders. I simply referenced one of the sources of information on that question.
Secondly, you wrote
"The Constitution was not written to create a new union, it was was to perfect the one that already existed with the 13 independent sovereign nations that formed a confederacy. The Constitution did not create a central government which had supremacy over the states"
I never said the Constitution was written to "CREATE A NEW UNION". All I mentioned was a consistent rule of law and making the Federalist Papers into a better document, hence the Constitution. Also I did not say anything resembling your second sentence. I never said the Constitution created an all powerful central government with sovereignty over the states or the people. Not even close. How did you get that out of what I said to Byron?
I jumped to some conclusions due to the fact that so many folks are absolutely in love with the Federalist Papers which were written to justify the ratification of the Constitution while they fail to even mention the Anti-Federalist Papers. The Anti-Federalists were concerned the power granted to the new central government would ultimately be abused and the sovereignty of the states would be jeopardized.
Many of the essays in the Federalist Papers are well written, but unless the Constitution is strictly obeyed it can become a tool in the hands of tyrants to enslave the people/
I agree Keith and I will check out the Anti-Federalists' writings, but know this. Thomas Jefferson is my favorite founder, so you don't have to convince me that Hamilton was a big everything nutcase. I believe in the Jefferson model.
Replies
All I can say is; if 45 minutes of listening to Walter E. Williams ("Black by popular demand and a handsome devil if you ask him"), talk about the proper role of government doesn't convince you that we are far, far away from it, then nothing will.
This guy should be President, not the likes of the Communist Barry Soetoro. It is clear by All accounts that he is ineligible to be President. He is not a Natural Born Citizen of the united states of America. It is time for us to remove him from OUR office and to return to the proper rule of law, where the role of government is clear, limited and defined once again.
Keith posted on the Constitution Club and article The Proper Role of Government, featuring four short videos. Defense by Silvia Mind Control, Milton Friedman, Earl Taylor, and Walter E Williams. As far as I could understand they didn't agree on much of anything, with the exception that they all seemed to agree somewhat that people have the right to life, liberty and property.
I don’t know about Silvia Mind Control but all the rest of them seem to be people who lived in the United States of America; Americans. Only one of them cited the United States Constitution and none of them addressed the preamble to our Constitution.
Which states “We The People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and provide the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution United States of America”.
I don’t see any place in the United States Constitution that states people have the right to life liberty and property. In the Declaration of Independence it clearly states that we hold these truths to be self-evident, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
I heard them talk about free trade, the right to trade and that no one could give to anyone power or authority that they did not have themselves. I heard Williams say that he could trade dollars for milk and both sides would be happy and others talked about buying things. However, I never heard any of them talk about what was to be used for money, where it would come from, how it was to work, or what difference that would make in ensuring domestic tranquility or general welfare. How would that have anything to do with providing the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our children? It seems quite clear to me that no one could have the right to life liberty or property if he has to borrow and pay interest on every cent he uses to engage in any form of commerce. Yet clearly not a single one of them thought that this mattered.
Not a single one of them addressed the fact that Congress was to coin the money, obviously for the benefit of the people, so they can engage in commerce without being enslaved to their lender for their medium exchange.
I think before we start declaring what the role of the world United States government is we should get a good understanding of what the founding fathers meant when they stated;
“We The People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and provide the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution United States of America”.
What did they mean when they said to form a more perfect Union?
What did they mean when they said establish justice? My dictionary says justice is a quality of being righteous the use of authority and power to hold that which is right. To learn which is right or wrong I think that a good place to go was to the Bible and look at the 10 Commandments which states:
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother.
6. Thou shalt comment murder.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
10. Thou shall not covet.
11. Thou shall love thy neighbor. You shouldn’t do anything to your neighbor you wouldn’t want him to do to you.
What did they mean when they said insure domestic Tranquility?
What did they mean when they said provide for the common defense?
What did they mean when they said promote the general welfare ?
What did they mean when they said provide the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity?
Ok Byron,
That's a lot of words. I read all of them. I'm not sure about some of those sentences. Not sure I understand everything you're saying either, but I am sure that I have addressed this issue myself in an article I posted on my page. Perhaps you've seen it. In case you haven't, here it is again.
I Want
I want my federal government to:
Morton
It is very clear that you did not understand anything I wrote. I didn't ask nor was I interested in what, you want the government to do. I only wanted to know what other people thought the founding father meant when they wrote the preamble to the Constitution.
What did they mean when they said, “to form a more perfect Union?”
What did they mean when they said, “to establish justice?”
What did they mean when they said, “to form a more perfect Union?”
What did they mean when they said, “to insure domestic Tranquility?”
What did they mean when they said, to provide for the common defense?”
What did they mean when they said, “promote the general welfare?”
What did they mean when they said, “to provide the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity?”
Ok Byron,
All good questions I could probably answer, but why don't you just read the news articles of the day. Its called the Federalist Papers. This, along with the DOI and The Constitution should be adequate to fully answer all of those questions and more I'm sure.
For instance, when they said a more perfect, I'm sure they meant that they needed to improve drastically on the Articles of Confederation as these articles were inadequate to a burgeoning nation ready for freedom and a consistent rule of law for all occasions now and in the future. So they created the Constitution in the first place to do that very thing, To form a more perfected document that could accommodate their newly formed sovereign nation. OK Byron?
Now would you like to try one?
Morton, Have you ever read the Anti-Federalist Papers? Have you ever read Lysander Spooner's work titled "No More Treason"? The Federalist Papers main author was none other than the traitor Alexander Hamiliton while the Anti-Federalists included Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, George Mason, Richard Henry Lee and a host of other signers of the Declaration of Independence.
The Constitution was not written to create a new union, it was was to perfect the one that already existed with the 13 independent sovereign nations that formed a confederacy. The Constitution did not create a central government which had supremacy over the states, it created a government where the states shared a larger portion of their authority with the central government.
Keith,
I have not read the Anti-Federalist Papers, but I have read "No More Treason" and other Spooner works. However The Federalist Papers were the work of Hamilton, Madison and Jay. Were they all Federalists? Probably, but that doesn't make them wrong, nor does it make me wrong for referencing them. I was simply addressing the question from Byron of what did they mean when they said "to form a more perfect union". That's all. The answer can be found in many places authored by many of our founders. I simply referenced one of the sources of information on that question.
Secondly, you wrote
"The Constitution was not written to create a new union, it was was to perfect the one that already existed with the 13 independent sovereign nations that formed a confederacy. The Constitution did not create a central government which had supremacy over the states"
I never said the Constitution was written to "CREATE A NEW UNION". All I mentioned was a consistent rule of law and making the Federalist Papers into a better document, hence the Constitution. Also I did not say anything resembling your second sentence. I never said the Constitution created an all powerful central government with sovereignty over the states or the people. Not even close. How did you get that out of what I said to Byron?
I jumped to some conclusions due to the fact that so many folks are absolutely in love with the Federalist Papers which were written to justify the ratification of the Constitution while they fail to even mention the Anti-Federalist Papers. The Anti-Federalists were concerned the power granted to the new central government would ultimately be abused and the sovereignty of the states would be jeopardized.
Many of the essays in the Federalist Papers are well written, but unless the Constitution is strictly obeyed it can become a tool in the hands of tyrants to enslave the people/
I agree Keith and I will check out the Anti-Federalists' writings, but know this. Thomas Jefferson is my favorite founder, so you don't have to convince me that Hamilton was a big everything nutcase. I believe in the Jefferson model.